16.12.10

RePost: On Being a Prospective Graduate Student

Because it's that time of year (and I haz the WhyTheFuckIsn'tThisSemesterOverYet-itis), I'm reposting something I wrote early this year about evaluating your prospects when you're a soon-to-be-n00b PhD. Even though it was 10 months ago, it was only on page 3 (shame upon me) and Google Analytics informs me you jackanapes avoid clicking that far like it's a goddamn haunted graveyard. Harrumph.

So here comes...the blast from the n00b past:

I'm writing this post 1) Because it is/about to be interview time for the prospective n00b PhDs. And I have now gained a piddling amount of prospective on the whole advisor picking process.

The one thing I found the most invaluable about my whole 'touring the universities stupid enough to accept me' experience was seeing how different universities handle prospective grad students' interactions with current grad students. My first point of advice is if the only time you see current grads is when they are transporting you to and from somewhere, or are regurgitating excruciatingly well-rehearsed verbiage, or all interactions involve having some admin or faculty member present BE FUCKING AFRAID. A University, or Department, that refuses to let you have unstructured 1 on 1 time with their current students has something to hide.

figure 1: Please do not enter the Academic pedobear van. Seriously.

Secondly, if they do let you talk to grad students without the Department administrator cracking a whip/pom-pom over their heads, FUCKING LISTEN TO THEM. I've seen it happen over and over again when I was:

Touring different instiutiions
Interviewing at my own university
When meeting my own class
The class after me
The upcoming class

where bright-eyed bushy tailed prospective scientists run into the IRL version of Young Female Scientist who tells them What's Up and they go 'pfff, I'll never be like THEM'. And that, my friend, would make you a Total Dumbass. Even if you decide that this Embittered Grad is clearly a schizo who thinks their PI smiling at them is some form of feral aggression, you should take more than 0.0001s to wonder why the hell they think the way they do. Sometimes it's because they were never cut out for the gig and should never have started in the first place. And sometimes (a lot of the time!) the department/their advisor is the meatgrinder they say they are. You should also take a moment to ponder why the fuck this person was allowed to talk to you if they're such an anomaly. Admins pick the grads who get to talk to the incoming slaughter with the precision of diamond inspectors. If the best they can find involves taking Embittered Grads, you should worry.

Second is listen when students tell you to run from a specific advisor. I've seen this happen way too many times where people straight up ignore current students from a specific PI and join a lab anyway. Year(s) later they're either leaving all together because they're convinced they can't hack it or they are constantly kvetching about how much their PI sucks. Hey I complain sometimes and my PI is The Shit, imagine what it's like when the 'new lab experience' glow wears off and you realize your PI is a tyrannical asshole just like everyone told you? 99% of the time PhDs make these poor decisions because: An Awesome Project.

Which brings up my third major point: DON'T PICK A PROJECT, PICK AN ADVISOR!!!

Why, you might ask?

BECAUSE YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU WANT TO DO, even if you think you do.

I know, you think you're totally wedded to this specific subsubsubfield that only Prof. A is doing and without THAT PROJECT your life will be without meaning. Take a deep breath and shut the fuck up. Do you think your heart and soul will still be digging this project if it's not working 3 years from now because your PI refuses to give you guidance? If your PI refuses to let you graduate until you get that one last set of data? If your PI takes your project from you and gives it to a more promising student (yes it happens)? I'll answer for you, no you will not. Your PhD will be exponentially more pleasant if you find a PI you respect and is compatible with your work-style with a project that is at least mildly interesting. Because if the science is solid you will grow to love your project.

For example, the project I was just DYING to work on when I was applying to grad school was already taken. I took another one because I wanted to work for that PI-and now, in my 2nd year, that original project is opening up. You couldn't pay me to take it because I love my current research, the science is fascinating and my team is fantastic.

Sometimes, you will hear nothing bad about your prospective PI from grad students. Either because they're awesome, or the students are too fearful to say anything different. So then you have to go interview with said d00d/d00dette and HEAR WHAT THEY HAVE TO SAY. Some people are so tied up in impressing said professor that they let what the professor says in return fly in one ear and straight out the other.

I'll admit, many Diabolical PIs are very, very good, on turning on the smuve moves and carrying you away on a rainbow of unicorns and promises of Glamormag pubs. They are hard to resist. But some (most), are not. They will straight up tell you that they are micromanaging, overbearing pricks and many students won't listen. Or, prospectives insist that 'they will be different' because they're made from unicorn dust. I remember one professor straight up told me he basically laid out his students like cogs in a wheel, imported foreign students for short periods of time because 'they worked hard and didn't ask questions', and complained his students frequently asked him absolutely stupid things and he couldn't believe they wasted his time like that. Guess what, plenty of people who interviewed there as well thought he was Jesus Walking on Water because they saw his publication list and nothing else. Always keep in mind there are Badass PIs who have those publication lists because they sacrifice the hearts and souls of their students to the Altar of Glamormag.

figure 2: What, you thought that Pub can from organic, humanely grown grad student? Puh-leez

I have friends who were vacillating about whether to report to the Dept Head about their abusive advisor only to find their PIs went there ahead of time to get them booted out. I know people who've seen their Demi-God PI two or three times their entire career (and no it wasn't the kind of lab where they could get support elsewhere). I know first years who got yanked out of classes because their PI decided they needed to be in the lab more. Some people fall into sticky situations even though they kept both eyeballs peeled, others jump into a vat of acid with blinders on and are surprised to find that it burns. Try not to get yourself into shit when it can be easily avoided. In conclusion (with friendly all caps and bold font, Kanyestyle).


  1. If current grad students at your prospective dept are going the way of the dodo bird, be WARY
  2. If current grad students have bad shit to say about the department/advisers, LISTEN
  3. If the PI straight up tells you he's going to run you into the fucking ground and you should be thankful because it's a chance to prove your mettle or some other bullshit, RUN
  4. Always, ALWAYS pick the PI, not the PROJECT. You won't give a flying fuck about the project 5, 6 years from now if your advisor is a megalomaniacal cloven-hooved asswipe
Stay classy, prospective n00bs, and may the acceptances follow you.

6 comments:

Anonymous said...

Prospective noob here -- appreciate the advice. I've been working as a tech for a wonderful PI for the past two years, but I've also seen some of the usual academic offenses:

1. Neighbor junior PI who spends 18 hours a day in the lab and yells at his peons when they dare to be out of the lab. One postdoc straight up quit after a month of this. Another tech coped by drinking when he was in lab by himself late at night.

2. Big hotshot collaborator PI who will speak nothing but sunshine and rainbows but never deigns to actually show up in his lab. As a result the lab is like the lord of the god damn flies. Seriously, I had an experiment there that was "accidentally" destroyed by someone who thought an incubator was set 40 degrees too low.

3. Bestest Departments In The Subfield which pump out amazing amounts of research by tossing grad students, postdocs, and junior faculty into a giant meat grinder. It manages to pump out a lot of delicious Glamor Mag Sausage, but only at the cost of the sanity of everyone but the senior faculty. Which, as it happens, have some major financial stakes in start-ups based on their research.

So for my admissions essays I'm saying "dr. bigshot has some cool research which I'd like to do". But really, I'll be looking for a sane PI with a vaguely interesting project and enough resources to keep things moving for 6 years.

Another senior grad student told me that you really need to have a few beers with prospective lab members to get the real story about a lab.

quietandsmalladventures said...

OH HELL YES!!! may i add i additonal point as a 4th yr? i'm gonna anyway.

******************GRAD SCHOOL HAS NO FINITE END NO MATTER IF YOU ARE MADE OF UNICORN DUST!

this is important prospective minions because no matter what they tell you the average graduation rate is (it's 5.5 yrs at my uni), it's an AVERAGE. at my MRI, this average includes military Ph.D candidates and MD-Ph.D candidates each of which have at most 3.5 yrs to graduate.

so make sure you can live with your adviser for the next 4-7 years of your 60 hr+/week life.

(also realize your 1st stipend check won't appear until mid-sept assuming you start in august.)

@anon: if you interview at my MRI i'll shoot straight without beers, but they def help!

lin said...

Aaaaaaaaaaaa-men!

Anonymous said...

This is some of the BEST ADVICE to prospective Ph.D. students I have ever read, and I wholeheartedly agree based on my grad school experience. I have had friends and colleagues who worked for absolutely tyrannical supervisors who made their lives absolutely miserable.

I would also offer this general advice: If for ANY reason the PI makes you feel personally uncomfortable (other than just sheer nerves of being in an interview situation) you should trust your gut instinct and get out of there. Don't let anyone take advantage of your admiration for nefarious purposes. Your advisor should be a trusted resource who has your formation as a scientist as one of their main priorities and is willing to help you acquire the skills you need to succeed in your research and future career.

Hermitage said...

@Anon: I second the having beers with the current lab members suggestion. As long as they don't get so drunk that they feel ok tweaking your boobies.

Not that that's ever happened to me, I'm just saying.

@quietandsmalladventures: OF COURSE YOU CAN ADD ADDITIONAL POINTS!

But only if you make me a vintage inspired dress because all your posts are making me jelly.

@lin: I always love when I inspire religious-like devotion *sigh*

@Anon 2.0: Best advice evah? I feel so speshul, thank you!

Anonymous said...

Thanks for this. As a department secretary who is transitioning to graduate student (YAYYYYY!!), may I also recommend talking to the admin? I know my faculty like the offspring I don't have, and I can tell you off the record who to avoid. Call me. Email me. Ask me for five minutes, show me the list of PI's, and I'll point out the sexual harasser, the one who holds lab meetings on Christmas, the one who blamed his grad student for his mistake and ruined the poor student's career - all of it. And I can point to names of faculty that will bend over backwords to pimp you out post-graduation, who have connections and will fight for you and years later keep track of you and help you out.

Moreover, how the professor treats people who are lower in social standing (i.e. admins) has a direct impact on how they will likely treat you.

No one ever asks me, though.